And there is a very big tradition in education with experiential knowledge, or experience in education. So we're trying to do that, and so thinking about patients and how they get involved in research or how they get involved in their care, or how they get involved in quality assurance in hospitals, for example, got me thinking about the value of that, but also got me thinking about how do we leverage it. How do we work with it? How do we mine it? How do we, you know, it's like raw, right. A patient telling a story about, you know, I was admitted in hospital in 1943, ever since then I've lived with chronic kidney disease, and my mother died and so on, that's the raw material. But then out of that raw material you can produce a consistent body of knowledge that is scientifically rigorous, that is useful, that you can rely on. So, you know, that's important.